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Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:16 From:
If you just add a statement like that on that pages dealing with "Djafgar tarikhy", then you can be objective without taking one side or another.

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:16 From:
Dear Nail and Khazaria, inadverently some messages, including yours and mine, were erased. If I can, I will attempt to restore them. I hope you have a copy of your messages. Thanks, Norm

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:15 NAIL ERZIN From: USA Philadtlphia Khazaria From: USA (Restored) Norm: The Hazaras of Afghanistan are definitely not the same people as Khazars, nor are Hazaras Turkic. This is a case of a simple name similarity. Khazars aren't the same people as Huszars, Agathyrsoi, or Akatziroi, nor did they serve as Caesars in Rome, and their name isn't the origin of the Yiddish words khazer and khazerai nor the German word Ketzer. As far as the Bulgarian book on early Bulgar history, you have it backwards - the public is ill-served if you make it seem like everything there is factual without mentioning that there's a controversy over part of it, with some people claiming that some of its episodes are a modern fantasy and not attested elsewhere, while others think it is an accurate representation of real historical events. If you just add a statement like that on that pages dealing with "Djafgar tarikhy", then you can be objective without taking one side or another. Right now you are indirectly endorsing its accuracy. Besides, how do you know about the accuracy of Bakhshi Iman, the author of "Djafgar tarikhy"? You're mixing him up with Z. Z. Miftakhov, the compiler who used Iman's statements. Tell me what you know about the Tatar author Bakhshi Iman. The rest of Miftakhov's sources may be fine.

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:13 maype From: Spain Barcelona maype From: Spain Barcelona (Restored) Hello from Barcelona

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:13 From:
To Soner. In this site main issues discussed are historical ones, not the politicals. And this page is designed for feedbacks. So my opinion is , let's keep the current format. You can comminicate (if you desire)via email. To Norm, I still insist that kumans are descendants of vusun. Maybe it is better to discuss this via email, not this page. If there is online info about this subject and Tarim mummies, please conduct me. Thanks N.S.

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:12 From:
Dear Soner Cesmeci, I stay away from the politics and any use of history for political ends. In the past, the most prominent traits of the Turkic people were adaptability, a desire for autonomy and spiritual tolerance. The unfolding of the past history shows technical ingenuity, political atomization and intellectual opennes. In the periods when they were suppressed, the suppressors just lost it all in a self-destructing blindness. And that makes the history all the more fascinating for you and me. Thanks, Norm

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:11 Soner Cesmeci From: TURKEY Istanbul
By means of your estemeed site, I feel closer to our history and culture more than yesterday. As I can see very clearly from the other messages and facts of present day's world, History of Turks is something that one must always keep in mind. We'll always make people remember that there is more than 350 million Turks and one day we will come together under one flag and GOK TENGRI like olden days Thank you...

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:11 From:
Hello N.S. I simpathise with your inquiry. Talking with a few Turkish scholars in Turkey I was surprised of how their views are very conformant with the Indo-European proponents. I expected a little wider perspective, since they can recognise immediately artifacts and lexicon that the Indo-European proponents try to ethymologise using obscure remnants of the various non-Turkic provenances. Like simple words, "Su", "Kale" "Aul" etc. But every day brings us new tools and new insights, so with time we will be able to know better. For the Wusuns, their location and time coincides with Alans/Ases, so we can be pretty sure that Wusuns is a Chinese rendering of Ases, i.e. Alans. And the idea that Ases are not Turkish is rotting away pretty fast now. Here is also very important the meaning of the Chinese hyerogliph, usually ignored by the translators. If, for example, hyerogliph for "Us" means beautiful, and for "Wus" mieans "Ugly", the Chinese would use "Wus" to desribe an enemy or a barbarian. This area needs exploration. Yuechi are Tokhars, or Tau-ars, "Mountaineers" in Turkish. Their genetics is Uralian, ie Turkic. And their history is nor unknown too. Thanks, Norm

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:10 From:
Hi Norm and everyone else. I don't know about Tarim mummies. But it may be true that Kumans are related to Wusun or yuechi. In Chinese reports, it is written that " their leader is called KUN-MI" (from a book of W.Eberhard) If anyone (an expert) clarifies this issue it will be very good. I asked a schooler in Turkey about Wusun and yuechi. He told that archeology says they are not Turkish. Thanks. N.S. from Turkey

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:10 From:
I do not know what Arian is. Definitely not what Hitler propagated. "Ar" in Turkic is "man", so all people are Arians. Ural mountains and Aral sea are the areas that may reflect the name "Ar". Look in Genetics/Cavalli-SforzaEn.htm, where would you place the Arians in the genetic map? Tarim mummues are likely Uralic, I know of 2 reports on the subject so far. Look in Pazyryk/Pazyryk_gensEn.html and the links. The Dinlins of the Chinese records are usually thought to be linked to Kipchaks and Kumans. Thanks, Norm

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