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Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:11 Soner Cesmeci From: TURKEY Istanbul By means of your estemeed site, I feel closer to our history and culture more than yesterday. As I can see very clearly from the other messages and facts of present day's world, History of Turks is something that one must always keep in mind. We'll always make people remember that there is more than 350 million Turks and one day we will come together under one flag and GOK TENGRI like olden days Thank you...

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:11 From: Hello N.S. I simpathise with your inquiry. Talking with a few Turkish scholars in Turkey I was surprised of how their views are very conformant with the Indo-European proponents. I expected a little wider perspective, since they can recognise immediately artifacts and lexicon that the Indo-European proponents try to ethymologise using obscure remnants of the various non-Turkic provenances. Like simple words, "Su", "Kale" "Aul" etc. But every day brings us new tools and new insights, so with time we will be able to know better. For the Wusuns, their location and time coincides with Alans/Ases, so we can be pretty sure that Wusuns is a Chinese rendering of Ases, i.e. Alans. And the idea that Ases are not Turkish is rotting away pretty fast now. Here is also very important the meaning of the Chinese hyerogliph, usually ignored by the translators. If, for example, hyerogliph for "Us" means beautiful, and for "Wus" mieans "Ugly", the Chinese would use "Wus" to desribe an enemy or a barbarian. This area needs exploration. Yuechi are Tokhars, or Tau-ars, "Mountaineers" in Turkish. Their genetics is Uralian, ie Turkic. And their history is nor unknown too. Thanks, Norm

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:10 From: Hi Norm and everyone else. I don't know about Tarim mummies. But it may be true that Kumans are related to Wusun or yuechi. In Chinese reports, it is written that " their leader is called KUN-MI" (from a book of W.Eberhard) If anyone (an expert) clarifies this issue it will be very good. I asked a schooler in Turkey about Wusun and yuechi. He told that archeology says they are not Turkish. Thanks. N.S. from Turkey

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:10 From: I do not know what Arian is. Definitely not what Hitler propagated. "Ar" in Turkic is "man", so all people are Arians. Ural mountains and Aral sea are the areas that may reflect the name "Ar". Look in http://sophistikatedkids.com/turkic/60 Genetics/Cavalli-SforzaEn.htm, where would you place the Arians in the genetic map? Tarim mummues are likely Uralic, I know of 2 reports on the subject so far. Look in http://sophistikatedkids.com/turkic/64 Pazyryk/Pazyryk_gensEn.html and the links. The Dinlins of the Chinese records are usually thought to be linked to Kipchaks and Kumans. Thanks, Norm

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:09 From: 1)I see that "german" is no the right word. I meant "arian" (I know that in one of the articles you refered it is claimed that it has turkic meaning). 2) It is claimed that Mummies that were found in Tarim Basin were of people from arian stock. Actually I think that Cumanians were descendents of that people. Maybe they are the ones called Yuechi or Wusun in chinese records.

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:09 From: 1. Every nation, exept very isolated, is a conglomeration of conglamerations, in a sense that its components were already conglomerations when we first learned of their existance. This is especially true for the Tьrkic people, who culturally and politically dominated Euroasia for the most part of the known history. As you say, "Among Turkic people there is every kind." It would be a miracle if it was different. Look in http://sophistikatedkids.com/turkic/27 Scythians/Massagetan Warrior En.htm to see how, in the 7th c. BC the Tьrks were conglamerazed into something that, say, by the 5th c. BC were also Tьrks, but somewhat different from the 7th c. BC Tьrks. 2. Considering the symbiosis between the Tьrks and Germans that started at least when Goths came en mass to the Tьrkish lands in the N.Pontic in the 2nd c. AD, and lasted till 9 c. AD, how can you tell me who are the "Germans"? Today's Germans have so much Tьrkic blood that you may be comparing the Cumanian descendents with the Cumans. Look in http://sophistikatedkids.com/turkic/26Kipchaks/european_kipchaks En.htm to see more on that.

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:09 From: Every nation (or group of people) has characteristic physical attirbutes. Among Turkic people there is every kind. Thi is confusing. What is the origin of Turkic people? For example Cumans are more like germans than turkish.

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:08 From: Dear Om, Look in http://sophistikatedkids.com/turkic/33WritingTuranian/TurPismrEn1-9.htm Look for, etc. However, it looks that in the 2-nd c. BC, during the minting of above stated coins, Turan is not a proper name, but an adjective. The word Yabgu with the suffix of belonging, Yabgug, on the coin, shows that it should be understood in the inscription not as Yabgu of Turan, but as Turan Yabgu. Here the meaning of this word is exhibited in a broader sense. It reminds a Persian word deulet: 'money', 'riches', 'possession', 'country', 'state'. Hope it will help Thanks, Norm

Thu 25 Sep 2003 14:07 ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ From: USA-TURKEY Atlanta- Miami-Istanbul I am sorry to post a message here but I was trying to figure out if the name Turkey is a name invented later on by Byzantines ( name given to the area where the first Hungarians settled was TOURKIA ( Turkey in Greek). Trying to make a smart guess I came to the conclusion that it might even mean "land of touring people"... Do you think there is any validity to this epsytomological guess?

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